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Difference between revisions of "Talk:The Stormlight Archive"
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::I strenuously do not like a scrollbar at this time and I think the ketek should not be there. It's too busy. -- [[User:Chaos2651|Chaos2651]] ([[User talk:Chaos2651|talk]]) 17:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Scrollbars on tables are a pretty common feature on other wikis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Scrolling_table_doc), I don't see why we should be opposed to them here. Any particular reason you don't like them? I thought the scrollbars were a good solution to the previous direction from you, which was that the display on mobile wasn't ideal - now I think it looks great on all screen sizes, and if "business" is a concern, it's easy to sort the columns by priority or expand the minwidth on certain columns as needed, so that the most important columns are always in view. In fact, I think there are more columns that would be valuable - such as Word Count comparisons, and maybe even comparison of the Epilogues - and now that the table size isn't a concern with scrollbars, I think there's a good case to add those columns in as well. Ultimately, I think having a detailed comparison of the Stormlight book structures is something that has a lot of merit and is definitely a use case for the Coppermind. If there are concerns about spoilers or overwhelming casual users (although personally I don't think either of those concerns hold much water) - I could understand being required to split off the page to something like The_Stormlight_Archive/Statistical_analysis (maybe The_Stormlight_Archive/Comparison) - but I think for now everything fits well and this is the best location to include the data. I think the table is a cool and elegant way to display the similarities between the Books. I can imagine it helping some of the more casual people who visit the page realize that each of the books follow a specific structure - maybe something they hadn't picked up on yet. Before I read the series, I visited this page, and it was helpful for me understanding that each book had a specific Flashback character, the other changes I made are to add information I also think would've been helpful for me to see. [[User:SimonEwok|SimonEwok]] ([[User talk:SimonEwok|talk]]) 22:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Let's table further mobile optimizations for now... it really depends on how we do our full mobile skin so I don't really have a lot of brainspace to think of all the permutations. I strongly think the ketek should be removed; we have discussed this among the Keepers and there is consensus on not having the ketek there. The table is too busy right now. Additionally, I think the years aside from the series chronology part should also be removed. -- [[User:Chaos2651|Chaos2651]] ([[User talk:Chaos2651|talk]]) 23:00, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::::I think word count would be useful information, but then aside from that I think we're at a good balance of information density. The thing with scrollbars is just that it really can be not obvious to viewers when there is a horizontal scrollbar, and I think if we can avoid it, that will be best. There will probably need to be scrollbars when we do have a mobile-centric responsive design, though, I do concede. I removed the ketek and I do strongly prefer this. Word count would be useful information so I'm in favor of that. -- [[User:Chaos2651|Chaos2651]] ([[User talk:Chaos2651|talk]]) 23:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::::I keep adding more thoughts, my apologies. I can see why you put the keteks there when the actual [[ketek]] page is so poor. I think a table displaying each book's ketek would be warranted there, or at least some place of making it clear. Regarding word count I definitely think it's worth putting on all series tables, linking to the respective statistical analysis pages. -- [[User:Chaos2651|Chaos2651]] ([[User talk:Chaos2651|talk]]) 23:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::I'd also just want to state that novellas being grouped in or not is a thing where reasonable minds may absolutely differ, so do just be aware that that is a lot of personal preference. I do mostly prefer it separated now. (But I'd remove the ketek). -- [[User:Chaos2651|Chaos2651]] ([[User talk:Chaos2651|talk]]) 17:33, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::My primary reason for wanting novels and novellas together is so that people can clearly see how they all fall in chronological order, so simply putting the two tables closer together doesn't really resolve that. As for the points you raise about how we cover other novellas, I agree you're right and I have no objections to talking about the Lunamor and Lopen novellas on this page, just to putting them in the table already. That said, I think I'm in the minority on both of these points, and I'm about ready to let them go. As for the interlude novella character, I'm well aware of that sentence you quote—[[Special:Diff/119112|I'm the one who wrote it]]. My comment was just that I wasn't sure that information was important enough to be in the table. At the end of the day, though, I'm not really opposed or interested in arguing it. I agree on adding word count—that's actually something we think could be added to all series tables; not sure if that's something that would interest you—and have added it here. I do think the table's sort of "full" at this point though. And finally, I would second Chaos' suggestion that the ketek page would be a good place to elaborate on the keteks.
::--[[User:Stargazer|Stargazer]] ([[User talk:Stargazer|talk]]) 00:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I've been wondering if the reference column is necessary - feels like the references could easily be moved to the book titles column (or another) to free up more space. [[User:LadyLameness|LadyLameness]] ([[User talk:LadyLameness|talk]]) 07:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
== Legend for table? ==
Speaking as a user, I can't begin to fathom what the green background on all the squares besides the title mean. Red on title means that it's unpublished, but all the non-title squares are green. This seems to be some kind of convention between all the series pages, but I can't figure it out. Perhaps a legend would help? --[[User:Extremepayne|Extremepayne]] ([[User talk:Extremepayne|talk]]) 01:45, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
:Good question! Looks like the colors are coming from [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] which says:
:*Every table cell with the <code>bib</code> and <code>other</code> classes gets a tan background
:*Every table cell with the <code>bib</code> and <code>cosmere</code> classes gets that green background
:*The first table cell with the <code>bib</code> and <code>unreleased</code> classes gets that red background
:Note: it doesn't look like the <code>stormlight</code> class is doing anything. Anyways, since cosmere and non-cosmere books won't be in a table together, the end result is that green (or tan, as the case may be) basically just ends up as a background color. At the end of the day, I'm drawing a blank on an easy and aesthetic way to add a legend and since it essentially just comes down to "unreleased title cells are red, and then the rest of the table just has a green/tan background," I'm not sure how much that would add. On the other hand, I'm not sure how useful the green/tan background is in the first place.
:--[[User:Stargazer|Stargazer]] ([[User talk:Stargazer|talk]]) 21:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks Stargazer for clearing than up. I too think a legend isn't super helpful if its as simple as that, but maybe if the green background on all the other cells could be just the default grayish, that would be more intuitive. --[[User:Extremepayne|Extremepayne]] ([[User talk:Extremepayne|talk]]) 16:15, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
:If there was a way to restrict the red and green to the Book Title column as a indicator of released/unreleased and then have the other (non-header) cells Series Chronology onward be a different colour I think that might make things a bit more intuitive. I ''think'' that's what the table is currently trying to do? The confusion, as far as I see it, is coming from green being both the 'completed' colour for the Book Title column and then the regular colour for the other columns.[[User:LadyLameness|LadyLameness]] ([[User talk:LadyLameness|talk]]) 00:58, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
:: I like that idea and yes, it should be doable. We'd probably have to add a <code>released</code> class to released books on the series tables, but that wouldn't be too much work. The main question, I think, would be what do we want to do for colors beyond the Book Title column: Leave them white (well, on Pivot it's an alternating white and gray), have a single background color for all bibliography tables, or have separate background colors for cosmere vs non-cosmere?
:: --[[User:Stargazer|Stargazer]] ([[User talk:Stargazer|talk]]) 04:07, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
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