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Difference between revisions of "User talk:Debarra"
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:As well as this may I ask on what grounds you've decided to lock the page? From reading this is seems you are implying that solely yourself is allowed to edit the page in any substantial way, which reads as quite a tyrannical stance to take and one that is completely against the philosophy of letting others contribute to the site. If pages are going to be at random locked if anyone tries to improve them then why would anyone bother helping the site? --[[User:Debarra|Debarra]] ([[User talk:Debarra|talk]]) 19:44, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
::Hi Debarra, I'm sorry that we started things out on this foot. I want to start by taking the temperature down. Nothing that has happened can be reasonably described as tyranny. We let people do what they want to do on their user pages and generally take little interest. When you start making major edits to the most-trafficked page on the Coppermind, it is going to get noticed and flagged. I didn't roll back your edits, or start taking them apart, or anything like that. I talked to the Keeper team, and then I pressed pause on the page, so that we can talk. I stated up front that I'd written a lot of the Hoid article because I wanted to be straightforward with you, not because no one but me can edit it.
::Now to follow up on the actual topic at hand, I want to thank you for organizing some of the details in the early parts of Hoid's history in a better way, that's something I'd been meaning to do that I'd never gotten around to, and it's definitely better than it was. The Coppermind staff (not just myself) took a look at some of the edits though, and do think that there are elements where you are making assumptions not born out by the books or WoBs or overstate the confidence we have in that info. This is to be certain a balancing act, some level of assumption is necessary, but we think that you do go beyond that. It's part of what makes writing that section very difficult. I like what you've done here though and while there may be some minor tweaks that reduce the confidence that we state things (as Hoid's pre-White Sand history is pretty spotty) or add any of the info that Firesong has mentioned as being removed, I think that it should stay on the page.
::Additionally, reading through the larger section you suggested to Firesong as indicative of what you'd like to do to the page, I think the level of detail you are providing is excessive for the task at hand. This is currently one of the longest pages on the Coppermind, and when it's all said and done I believe it will probably be one of the longest pages on the wiki after all the books come out. Hoid will be the protagonist to several forthcoming novels. The current history is written to balance level of detail with readability and brevity, and I think that in your revised history you include too much detail. We are not looking to have the Hoid article be rewritten from scratch at this time, particularly the history, personality, or abilities sections. If there are significant details or elements that you feel are missing, we can definitely add some of them.
::If you want to head to the discord server, that is where a lot of our work discussion takes place and is ultimately chatting there works a lot better for our current wiki system than discussion through talk pages. If you'd rather speak to another member of the staff, instead of me, we can make that happen too, but I can honestly tell you that I am not speaking unilaterally here and you will not get a different answer from someone else. Thanks again for your help. --[[User:Windrunner|Windrunner]] ([[User talk:Windrunner|talk]]) 14:04, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
:: I am also rather concerned about this, as I personally feel the edit has a substantially amount of unsubstantiated assumptions concerning chronology, and removes a substantial amount of content. I am concerned about how much more content will be erased, and how many more theories will be inserted into the text. I also feel it is made far harder to follow as it just turns it into several very long paragraphs which go on a large amount of separate subjects, without proper indentation to separate topics. It is ultimately a communication of less information in more words, due to how many details it erased and did not include. I also feel it is very disrespectful to completely erase the work of others without due discussion with the main editors of the page responsible for the content, as one should have done. It was also not the best to call a complete erasure and replacement of the work of others an update instead of a replacement, and imply you are going to erase ''all'' of their work to replace it with your own. I apologize for my bluntness, I just find this rather upsetting and am also not sure how else to put my criticisms.
::::: If you wish to look at the other work feel free to go to my profile and click under /hoid. The only history sections there I consider somewhat presentable (as from my own work to clarify) are from 'Origin' to 'Catacrandre.' (Inclusive) If you want feel free to have a look and leave a note under the discussion page there on what you think needs to be fixed so I can take it into account as I continue to work on it. I would only ask to not edit the draft page directly as I still view massive chunks of it as a work in progress and a lot of it is laid out in an order that I can somewhat follow to remind me where I was.--[[User:Debarra|Debarra]] ([[User talk:Debarra|talk]]) 20:23, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::: I am glad I didn't. I just always worry I do as I am often rather blunt. Especially when stressed or anxious. And don't worry, I won't edit your draft. (Feel free to delete that talk page I made because I forgot how to go to the actual talk page.) --[[User:Firesong|Firesong]] ([[User talk:Firesong|talk]]) 20:27, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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